I just finished writing a response to a post from an old friend on another website. He calls himself an atheist (I don't believe in atheists). It made me start to think about the logic, or lack thereof, in saying, "there is no God." First, when studying philosophy and logical argument, I learned it is impossible to prove a universal negative. To say something does not exist means you can be present everywhere, all the time. In other words, to say there is no God means you must be omnipresent, and omniscient. But by saying there is no God, you have just declared yourself to be a god. After all, only God can be omnipresent and omniscient. So if you say there is no God, you have just contradicted yourself. This is the same as saying, "there is no absolute truth." You must then ask, "is that statement absolutely true?" Either way you answer it, you prove that the statement is false. Thus, there must be absolute truth.
I know that this blog is supposed to be about finding me. So forgive this detour into the metaphysical, logical, and sublime. But I guess finding me, means I have to find the reason for me (and I don't mean because my parents...well you know....)....I guess finding God is as good a place to start. To deny God's existence is to deny my own existence. Afterall, if there is no purpose or reason to any of the cosmos, then that includes me. I don't believe that for a minute. I have a purpose (even though my plans get messed up from time to time), and I believe I will fulfill that purpose, whether I am aware of it or not. Even the atheist has a purpose; he made me stop and think.
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It is exactly because of that logic argument that I consider myself an agnostic. If I were to go on beliefs though, I would consider myself atheist, because I truly believe that there is no god. I can flip the tables though. What proof do you have that there is a god? In the same way that you say they can't be an atheist, you claim that there is a god, and then insert faith into the situations where you don't have definitive proof. You may say we can't prove the negative, but you have to admit that you can't prove the positive either. So why call yourself a believer at all? I do believe that some people need to believe that there is a god though, because they can't handle the thought that they are the only ones in control of their lives. Is this you?
ReplyDelete-Alex
Alex, I know there is a God. I am absolutely positive, beyond the shadow of a doubt. My faith has absolutely nothing to do with needing someone else to be in control of my life. Though it may be true in some cases, I find that to be mostly contrary to the beliefs of those in my life. Control is actually something I struggle with. I like to try and make things happen on my own. The problem with that is that God has proven to me that He is in control over and over again. Through college, in my career, dating, family, and even down to my husband. He has ordered every bit of it. For this I am certain for so many reasons. If I would've had my way, my life would be very different. I'm glad I didn't succeed.
ReplyDeleteMy question for you, Alex, is this-have you ever investigated the possibility that God is real? Also, are you merely an atheist posing as agnostic to avoid being comfronted with the tough reasoning Ron just posed? If you need evidence, what conclusions and evidence have you based your beliefs on?
I do not mean to be confrontational at all so I hope I don't come off that way. I think that we all need to be asked tough questions, especially questions that challenge our foundational beliefs.
Your post came across as well thought out and formatted. It was very concise, and did not come across as confrontational at all.
ReplyDeleteIf you had your own way? I assume you mean that you think your life would have been screwed up? Without going into detail as to why I believe the way I do, the only thing I can really say to that is I believe that your belief in a god has helped you through things that would have been much harder to do without that belief. For that reason, I think it's good for people to be spiritual that need it.
Through my own disbelief in god and religion, I know that I have been able to really analyze what I believe to be right and wrong, instead of reading my moral values from a book. I think my life is much better for it. I would definitely not be the same person if I had fallen into a belief in religion.
I don't believe in a god of any sort. I also don't believe that anybody could ever prove that god doesn't exist, which is why I'm agnostic. I've definitely explored the possibility of a god before. During middle, and especially high school, this was a huge struggle for me. I started out on the side of believing in a god, and believing that I needed to be saved, and ended up concluding that there was no god ordering and directing our lives. I spent 2 years of constant thought and objective research in order to determine what was right, rather than just have faith that god was there. It's a belief of mine that has only gotten stronger over the years. I have considered the possibility that there is a god, but the evidence is so overwhelming to me that I can't possibly be ok with believing in one. If you define god in the way Ron said, where it is defined as Love, and you're going to call that god, then sure. I am willing to recognize that love exists, and if you're calling that god, then I would say that god exists.
I believe that physics work, and that things don't break the laws of physics. Crazy things happen, but there are rational explanations for all of them. I would rather try to find a scientific explanation for something than plead ignorance and say that god did it.
Ron's reasoning isn't tough at all. It's the same simple logic argument that's been used over and over. I know you're not going to like this argument, but I know there's nobody looking over me and directing my life in the same way I know that evolution happened. It's still technically a theory, but we've seen such an overwhelmingly large amount of evidence that supports the idea, that it's pretty much fact by now. You may not have seen that evidence, but I definitely have, and most of the scientific community has too.
I am always glad when I run into people that are willing to let their beliefs be challenged. Thanks for reading this far.
-Alex
Sorry for the late response. I have been extremely busy.
ReplyDeleteAnywho, yes I do mean that I "think my life would be screwed up" if not for God. Actually, I know it would be. Because it was, very screwed up. Before I made the decision to dedicate my life to Jesus I was super jacked up. As far as details I don't mind going into them-I had extremely low self esteem, thought receiving affirmation from men meant I was worthy and had value, went from being a work out addicted anorexic to a binge eating bulimic, I had zero self control, drank many nights away, behaved extremely foolishly, dappled with drugs, hated cigarettes but I was basically a train smoker, and I could go on... The point of sharing that is to tell you that I TRIED to "get better". I tried to stop making myself vomit after eating. I wanted to be happy rather than emotionally unstable and depressed, but I couldn't. I tried for 4 years to no avail. Then, I found myself at church one day (for a college assignment that I had put off) and I met God. Yes, I knew He was real, that very day. He met me in all my mess, and He loved me, and HE healed me. I had tried for a year to stop being bulimic, programs, dieting, journaling, self-discipline. None of it worked. When I fully gave my life to God, I woke up one day and was not bulimic. This is the honest truth. There is NO explanation for this other than God healed me. Again I say, I know He is real and by saying that I am in now way pleading ignorance. I have seen people lay their hands on others, pray for them and by the time they are done praying the person is healed. Myself, my husband, my grandmother, my mother, friends, and other family members alike have all experienced this first hand. Physics? I think not. I've seen it countless times.
It seems as though you may have had some bad experiences with "church people". If that is the case, I am so, so sorry. It hurts my heart that there are so many hypocritical Christians out there. Heck, I am hypocritical sometimes, we all are. Christians are still people, and people have flaws. That does not excuse bad behavior and abuse. Once again, if that's what happened in your case I am so sorry. You should also know that those sorts of behaviors are not God. He is perfect, His love is perfect and He loves you very much. I know that seems like a hard concept to grasp...some "man" out there in the Universe can love? He's not out there in the Universe though, wherever you are, He is there. He is rooting for you and trying to be noticed by you. I can guarantee you that if you "if you seek Him with all your heart and all your soul you will find Him." Deut. 4:29.
I have to disagree with your stance on evolution. I have scientific reasons to back up my thinking, though I will not get into it here. I have done a lot of research on this and heard a lot of perspectives and I definitely don't think that there is an "overwhelming" amount of evidence to support the theory of evolution. It doesn't make sense for so many reasons. If everything is evolving, why do things die? Of course there is a level to which evolution does exist that's why we have different races but it seems utterly absurd that we could have evolved from apes. If that's the case, why are there still apes? Why haven't they all evolved into humans. It just didn't happen. I could go way more in depth but for the sake of time and length of this message I will not. If you are interested in hearing more of my thoughts on this I'd be glad to put them together when I have a chance and email you.
Enjoying the chat and your perspective.
Peace, Brooke